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hinekoakahi:
fantastic-nonsense:
harrisonfreakingarrett:
fantastic-nonsense:
I am so intensely tired of all of these stories and sequels that are all about how much life sucks and your heroes are terrible and your Bright Hopeful Determined Protagonists whose struggles ultimately don’t mean anything go on to lead terrible lives full of sadness and grief and loss and become terrible parents and mentors
give me my happy endings and my hopeful bright characters that stay bright even in the midst of such tragedy and grief. Let them live to teach the new generation how to fight the battles they left behind. Let them love intensely and fiercely, and let them accomplish great things. Let them be good parents and mentors to the next generation. Above all, let them be happy. Let their trials and suffering not be in vain; give them happiness and a well-lived life. Real life is so rarely full of these things, but my fiction doesn’t need to be full of grim, stark pessimism masquerading as “reality” too
Look I feel this in the general sense. It’s why Return of the Jedi is very high on my Star Wars list. But I think Star Wars needed The Last Jedi, and Star Wars fans need to let go of their preconceived notions of what Star Wars is or is not. The story has to move forward, not backward, and the Force is what it is despite what you think it is. This is not the end of the Story…just as Empire was not the end in 1980.
This movie was not constructed for optimism, not in times such as these in which optimism is blind and naïve and impotent. This movie was constructed for hope.
So. Let’s discuss this.
Yes, technically this was about Star Wars. But it was also about how this is like the sixth fandom in the last five years that has pulled a sequel set several years after the end of the main series that does this: Harry Potter (The Cursed Child with the Trio) and Avatar (Legend of Korra with Aang) are the most notable ones, but I can pull everything from DC Comics to Naruto out at this point.
As a sidenote, it’s the same Hollywood wave that’s giving us all of these “grimdark” “gritty” fairy tales movies that started with Alice in Wonderland and Snow White and the Huntsman (films that were followed by movies like Beastly, Pan, Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters, Jack the Giant Slayer, etc) that have destroyed the core moral, ethical, and narrative points of nearly every fairy tale/fairy tale fantasy from Sleeping Beauty to The Wizard of Oz (Cinderella 2015 being a notable exception) and where they can’t seem to figure out that putting a sword in a woman’s hands doesn’t make her a “strong female character” or give her inherently more depth than a woman who never takes up arms.
But yes…let’s talk about Star Wars, since that’s what the post was technically about. And let’s talk about how you are instantly dismissive of the “preconceived notions” of fans of the saga despite them not being preconceived notions at all.
So let’s talk “the Force not being what you think it is.” Because what on earth do you think it is or what it means? If you’re talking about Rey’s parentage, let’s talk about how much bullshit that was because apparently Rey Random reminds us that “anyone can be powerful!” like literally every single Jedi in the prequels from Mace Windu to “literal desert slave-child” Anakin Skywalker to “almost became a farmer because no Master would take him” Obi-Wan Kenobi didn’t prove that. “The Force can belong to anyone, not just the Jedi or the Sith” like literally every Force Sensitive that doesn’t identify as a Jedi/Sith we’ve ever been introduced to from Ahsoka Tano to Baze and Chirrut didn’t show that. “Rey Random shows anyone can be a hero despite their origins” like Force Sensitive!Finn wasn’t literally handed to Rian Johnson on a silver platter.
Luke is only “important” because he is Anakin’s child. He is the legacy of one of the most powerful Force Sensitives in the galaxy, true, but it is his status as the son of Anakin Skywalker that makes him important to the story the Original Trilogy tries to tell. Not because he’s important to the Rebellion’s success (though he is), but because he is the catalyst to Darth Vader’s redemption. Specifically because he is Vader’s son, because Star Wars is a family drama. Other than that, he wasn’t important either; Luke Skywalker was a naive farmboy from a backwater desert planet that got a lucky hit in because he happened to have a powerful connection to the Force. So shut up about all of this “Rey Random is important!!!!!!!” nonsense. It’s just more garbage erasure of the backstories of basically every other protagonist of the Star Wars saga except our royalty (Padme and Leia) and erasure of the basic narrative point of Star Wars (family and redemption).
“This movie was not constructed for optimism” well fucking duh. But Star Wars is. And like, I’m sorry if that’s such a novel concept for you to comprehend, but if you don’t like optimism in the face of staggering odds, why the actual fuck do you even watch Star Wars? Because let’s take a look back at the rest of the series, because there are a myriad of instances where the saga has done failure and still maintained that theme of hope and optimism. TPM ends with Qui-Gon’s death, but also with the Peace of Naboo and the promise of Anakin becoming a Jedi. AOTC ends with the Battle of Geonosis, the beginning of the Clone Wars, and the murder of at least 200 Jedi, but also with the marriage of Anakin and Padme and the hope for a better future. ROTS ends with the rise of the Empire, the destruction of the Jedi Order and literally the murder of almost every Jedi alive, Anakin becoming Vader, and Padme dying in childbirth, and yet the Skywalker twins provide hope for a better future. Rogue One ends with the deaths of literally every single main character in the entire movie and yet ends with the successful theft of the Death Star plans and Leia Organa literally talking about how the plans have brought “hope” to the rebellion. …I can go on to the original trilogy if you like, but I feel like I would just be belaboring the point.
Star Wars is about optimism. It’s about family and redemption and love and triumphing in the face of staggering odds. Those are the core moral and thematic linchpins of the series. If you want nihilism and pessimism and “grim gritty realism and not idealistic ideals are going to save the day”, go watch Watchmen or James Bond or some other series where that’s the point. And those ideas have their place in storytelling! But stop acting like Star Wars somehow “needed” to be tainted by that idea to move forward with its storytelling. It didn’t. It was perfectly possible for the series to move forward quite easily while maintaining its core themes of family, redemption, and optimism in the face of overwhelming odds.
“not in times such as these in which optimism is blind and naïve and impotent” Again, if you don’t want optimism, why the fuck are you watching Star Wars? Why are you so intent on destroying the basic underlying theme of the entire saga like this is somehow a good thing that needed to happen? Fuck that.
“This movie was constructed for hope” bitch where? Where was the hope besides Luke’s vague “I will not be the last Jedi” and that random slave child (that Finn and Rose left despite freeing the animals, btw) with the broom? You just spent your entire response talking about how TLJ was about pessimism and stark reality and then you turn around and try to say this is a movie about hope? What are you even playing at?
Like, I don’t think you understand the actual point I’m getting at here: Hollywood doesn’t seem to fucking understand that all of this “grimdark gritty depressing” stuff where your bright determined heroes grow up to be terrible role models and lead depressing lives is exhausting. Being told that your hope and idealism is stupid and that dark realism is going to win the day is tiring. Being told that you were wrong to get attached to and love these characters when they were the protagonists because they’re ultimately going to grow up to be shitty people or lose everything they love piece by piece turns me the fuck off from ever wanting to consume anything related to that piece of media ever again, because it’s depressing. Real life is terrible enough; I don’t need my fiction to reflect that too. Fiction is escapism. That’s the point. And sometimes, yeah, sad and tragic endings are good, because they fit the story. The Hunger Games was never going to have an unambiguously happy ending, and I was perfectly okay with that, because given the setting and the tone of the books, an unambiguously happy ending would have been unrealistic and not fitting with the overall tone.
But Star Wars? A series that, no matter how dark and terrible things get, always reminds you that there is hope and light and good people and heroes and unambiguously happy endings? That’s not what Star Wars is about, and that’s never what it’s been about, and I’m so tired of people telling me I’m just an “entitled fan” for thinking the basic linchpin of the entire saga shouldn’t be thrown away from some surface-level narrative about how “failure is good!!!!!!” that’s handled terribly and awkwardly and ultimately doesn’t even succeed in making the point it’s trying to make. Because I can reel off at least a dozen Star Wars stories that are technically about failure that manage to be as such while still maintaining the “Star Wars” feel. And that’s where TLJ failed…because it no longer feels like Star Wars. And I don’t care how you think of it, that’s a goddamn problem.
“[…] your bright determined heroes grow up to be terrible role models and lead depressing lives is exhausting. Being told that your hope and idealism is stupid and that dark realism is going to win the day is tiring.”
This. This right here is the reason that I am never completely at ease when going to see/read/play a sequel.
Because, you know, last time? Last time was glorious. Last time, all my babies grew into themselves. Last time, my babies grew into a team. Last time, they became a family.
And whenever I go to see how their story goes on, there’s the chance that this time they… won’t. That they will have somehow grown apart offscreen, instead of the time having strengthened their bonds. That all the lessons learned will have been unlearned. That we will have to start over from square. Fucking. One.
And for what? Because ~*drama*~ in the group makes something somehow more interesting to watch? Because groups will always, inevitably, fall apart?
Because Hollywood, for some reason, can only do team-construction or team-destruction, with nothing in between?
Fuck that noise.
(Your picture was not posted)
hinekoakahi:
fantastic-nonsense:
harrisonfreakingarrett:
fantastic-nonsense:
I am so intensely tired of all of these stories and sequels that are all about how much life sucks and your heroes are terrible and your Bright Hopeful Determined Protagonists whose struggles ultimately don’t mean anything go on to lead terrible lives full of sadness and grief and loss and become terrible parents and mentors
give me my happy endings and my hopeful bright characters that stay bright even in the midst of such tragedy and grief. Let them live to teach the new generation how to fight the battles they left behind. Let them love intensely and fiercely, and let them accomplish great things. Let them be good parents and mentors to the next generation. Above all, let them be happy. Let their trials and suffering not be in vain; give them happiness and a well-lived life. Real life is so rarely full of these things, but my fiction doesn’t need to be full of grim, stark pessimism masquerading as “reality” too
Look I feel this in the general sense. It’s why Return of the Jedi is very high on my Star Wars list. But I think Star Wars needed The Last Jedi, and Star Wars fans need to let go of their preconceived notions of what Star Wars is or is not. The story has to move forward, not backward, and the Force is what it is despite what you think it is. This is not the end of the Story…just as Empire was not the end in 1980.
This movie was not constructed for optimism, not in times such as these in which optimism is blind and naïve and impotent. This movie was constructed for hope.
So. Let’s discuss this.
Yes, technically this was about Star Wars. But it was also about how this is like the sixth fandom in the last five years that has pulled a sequel set several years after the end of the main series that does this: Harry Potter (The Cursed Child with the Trio) and Avatar (Legend of Korra with Aang) are the most notable ones, but I can pull everything from DC Comics to Naruto out at this point.
As a sidenote, it’s the same Hollywood wave that’s giving us all of these “grimdark” “gritty” fairy tales movies that started with Alice in Wonderland and Snow White and the Huntsman (films that were followed by movies like Beastly, Pan, Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters, Jack the Giant Slayer, etc) that have destroyed the core moral, ethical, and narrative points of nearly every fairy tale/fairy tale fantasy from Sleeping Beauty to The Wizard of Oz (Cinderella 2015 being a notable exception) and where they can’t seem to figure out that putting a sword in a woman’s hands doesn’t make her a “strong female character” or give her inherently more depth than a woman who never takes up arms.
But yes…let’s talk about Star Wars, since that’s what the post was technically about. And let’s talk about how you are instantly dismissive of the “preconceived notions” of fans of the saga despite them not being preconceived notions at all.
So let’s talk “the Force not being what you think it is.” Because what on earth do you think it is or what it means? If you’re talking about Rey’s parentage, let’s talk about how much bullshit that was because apparently Rey Random reminds us that “anyone can be powerful!” like literally every single Jedi in the prequels from Mace Windu to “literal desert slave-child” Anakin Skywalker to “almost became a farmer because no Master would take him” Obi-Wan Kenobi didn’t prove that. “The Force can belong to anyone, not just the Jedi or the Sith” like literally every Force Sensitive that doesn’t identify as a Jedi/Sith we’ve ever been introduced to from Ahsoka Tano to Baze and Chirrut didn’t show that. “Rey Random shows anyone can be a hero despite their origins” like Force Sensitive!Finn wasn’t literally handed to Rian Johnson on a silver platter.
Luke is only “important” because he is Anakin’s child. He is the legacy of one of the most powerful Force Sensitives in the galaxy, true, but it is his status as the son of Anakin Skywalker that makes him important to the story the Original Trilogy tries to tell. Not because he’s important to the Rebellion’s success (though he is), but because he is the catalyst to Darth Vader’s redemption. Specifically because he is Vader’s son, because Star Wars is a family drama. Other than that, he wasn’t important either; Luke Skywalker was a naive farmboy from a backwater desert planet that got a lucky hit in because he happened to have a powerful connection to the Force. So shut up about all of this “Rey Random is important!!!!!!!” nonsense. It’s just more garbage erasure of the backstories of basically every other protagonist of the Star Wars saga except our royalty (Padme and Leia) and erasure of the basic narrative point of Star Wars (family and redemption).
“This movie was not constructed for optimism” well fucking duh. But Star Wars is. And like, I’m sorry if that’s such a novel concept for you to comprehend, but if you don’t like optimism in the face of staggering odds, why the actual fuck do you even watch Star Wars? Because let’s take a look back at the rest of the series, because there are a myriad of instances where the saga has done failure and still maintained that theme of hope and optimism. TPM ends with Qui-Gon’s death, but also with the Peace of Naboo and the promise of Anakin becoming a Jedi. AOTC ends with the Battle of Geonosis, the beginning of the Clone Wars, and the murder of at least 200 Jedi, but also with the marriage of Anakin and Padme and the hope for a better future. ROTS ends with the rise of the Empire, the destruction of the Jedi Order and literally the murder of almost every Jedi alive, Anakin becoming Vader, and Padme dying in childbirth, and yet the Skywalker twins provide hope for a better future. Rogue One ends with the deaths of literally every single main character in the entire movie and yet ends with the successful theft of the Death Star plans and Leia Organa literally talking about how the plans have brought “hope” to the rebellion. …I can go on to the original trilogy if you like, but I feel like I would just be belaboring the point.
Star Wars is about optimism. It’s about family and redemption and love and triumphing in the face of staggering odds. Those are the core moral and thematic linchpins of the series. If you want nihilism and pessimism and “grim gritty realism and not idealistic ideals are going to save the day”, go watch Watchmen or James Bond or some other series where that’s the point. And those ideas have their place in storytelling! But stop acting like Star Wars somehow “needed” to be tainted by that idea to move forward with its storytelling. It didn’t. It was perfectly possible for the series to move forward quite easily while maintaining its core themes of family, redemption, and optimism in the face of overwhelming odds.
“not in times such as these in which optimism is blind and naïve and impotent” Again, if you don’t want optimism, why the fuck are you watching Star Wars? Why are you so intent on destroying the basic underlying theme of the entire saga like this is somehow a good thing that needed to happen? Fuck that.
“This movie was constructed for hope” bitch where? Where was the hope besides Luke’s vague “I will not be the last Jedi” and that random slave child (that Finn and Rose left despite freeing the animals, btw) with the broom? You just spent your entire response talking about how TLJ was about pessimism and stark reality and then you turn around and try to say this is a movie about hope? What are you even playing at?
Like, I don’t think you understand the actual point I’m getting at here: Hollywood doesn’t seem to fucking understand that all of this “grimdark gritty depressing” stuff where your bright determined heroes grow up to be terrible role models and lead depressing lives is exhausting. Being told that your hope and idealism is stupid and that dark realism is going to win the day is tiring. Being told that you were wrong to get attached to and love these characters when they were the protagonists because they’re ultimately going to grow up to be shitty people or lose everything they love piece by piece turns me the fuck off from ever wanting to consume anything related to that piece of media ever again, because it’s depressing. Real life is terrible enough; I don’t need my fiction to reflect that too. Fiction is escapism. That’s the point. And sometimes, yeah, sad and tragic endings are good, because they fit the story. The Hunger Games was never going to have an unambiguously happy ending, and I was perfectly okay with that, because given the setting and the tone of the books, an unambiguously happy ending would have been unrealistic and not fitting with the overall tone.
But Star Wars? A series that, no matter how dark and terrible things get, always reminds you that there is hope and light and good people and heroes and unambiguously happy endings? That’s not what Star Wars is about, and that’s never what it’s been about, and I’m so tired of people telling me I’m just an “entitled fan” for thinking the basic linchpin of the entire saga shouldn’t be thrown away from some surface-level narrative about how “failure is good!!!!!!” that’s handled terribly and awkwardly and ultimately doesn’t even succeed in making the point it’s trying to make. Because I can reel off at least a dozen Star Wars stories that are technically about failure that manage to be as such while still maintaining the “Star Wars” feel. And that’s where TLJ failed…because it no longer feels like Star Wars. And I don’t care how you think of it, that’s a goddamn problem.
“[…] your bright determined heroes grow up to be terrible role models and lead depressing lives is exhausting. Being told that your hope and idealism is stupid and that dark realism is going to win the day is tiring.”
This. This right here is the reason that I am never completely at ease when going to see/read/play a sequel.
Because, you know, last time? Last time was glorious. Last time, all my babies grew into themselves. Last time, my babies grew into a team. Last time, they became a family.
And whenever I go to see how their story goes on, there’s the chance that this time they… won’t. That they will have somehow grown apart offscreen, instead of the time having strengthened their bonds. That all the lessons learned will have been unlearned. That we will have to start over from square. Fucking. One.
And for what? Because ~*drama*~ in the group makes something somehow more interesting to watch? Because groups will always, inevitably, fall apart?
Because Hollywood, for some reason, can only do team-construction or team-destruction, with nothing in between?
Fuck that noise.
(Your picture was not posted)
